Secular or Religious?

6 Responses to “Secular or Religious?”

1. Eshin on September 29th, 2005 8:09 am

   You would obviously be thinking about the US as one example of highly religious society?

2. eyal on September 29th, 2005 8:44 am

   Yes, the US is one, the article clearly talks about this. And there’s Catholic Philippines, Muslim Malaysia, Indonesia, Pakistan, Iran and many others. This is an interesting table which puts your favourite, the US, in perspective.

   Country % of adults for whom religion is important

   Senegal 97
   Indonesia 95
   Nigeria 92
   India 92
   Pakistan 91
   Ivory Coast 91
   Mali 90
   Philippines 88
   Bangladesh 88
   South Africa 87
   Kenya 85
   Uganda 85
   Ghana 84
   Tanzania 83
   Angola 80
   Guatemala 80
   Brazil 77
   Honduras 72
   Peru 69
   Bolivia 66
   Turkey 65
   Venezuela 61
   U.S. 59
   Mexico 57
   A really big gap appears here!
   Argentina 39
   Poland 36
   Ukraine 35
   Uzbekistan 35
   Great Britain 33
   Canada 30
   Slovakia 29
   Italy 27
   South Korea 25
   Vietnam 24
   Germany 21
   Russia 14
   Bulgaria 13
   Japan 12
   France 11
   Czech Republic 11

   http://www.religioustolerance.org/rel_impo.htm

3. delightedtoreply on September 29th, 2005 5:33 pm

   The US and Israel are the countries we are actually talking about here, aren’t we? They are the countries that use bibles. The other countries either use the koran or if they are Christian, most of there populace have never even seen a bible. Quibble if you want, but I’m taking that as a given. So, given that, is murder, divorce,etc, the reason the world so hates these two countries? I think not.
   While we’re on the subject of murder, communist-atheist countries are documented to have killed more than 100 million people during the twentieth century, more than all historically “religious” wars combined throughout history. This fact is routinely overlooked by those who wish to paint religious people in a certain way.
   Could the real reason be that darkness does not like to have the light shined on it?

4. eyal on September 29th, 2005 8:37 pm

   The reason people hate the US is clear, the US is successful, powerful and can afford to do things in the international arena that few countries can. Add to this mix the fact that Americans know this and you get a very resentful crowd. The reason people hate Israel is different, it’s based on religion, historical reasons, and the fact that Israel is associated with the US on many international topics.

   There is absolutely no doubt that non or less religious countries in modern times were involved in huge killings, from the Russians to the Chinese, Japanese, and most European countries which had their own atrocities in Africa.

   The main point of the article is that religion contributes to societies being dysfunctional (as measured by death rate, crime, STD’s etc.) I think this particular article isn’t really showing very strong empirical and statistical evidence, it just focuses on why the US is this or that. I wouldn’t be suprprised if there’s a political agenda behind it. But the suggested linkage between (any) religion and social health is still an interesting one.

   Thanks for your comments.

5. Eshin on September 29th, 2005 9:39 pm

   To be honest, I don’t really think religion has much to do with the social ills of a country. Cheap shot at the US in my earlier comment (Eyal knows how much I like to take those pot shots).

   The article for me highlights that the US is a highly religious country in parts of it, and forms a strong voting element in parts of the nation. So for the US to start running around claiming religious fanaticism in other nations as an ill is, in my opinion, a little hypocritcal.

   Religion is a means for control. How you use that control is dependant on who controls it. At the same time, “freedom” and “liberty” can be used equally for control. When they become buzzwords and abstract concepts, then they lose their meaning.

   On a side note, Christianity is a religion of war. It gained its popularity circa the Roman times because it promised victory if one believed in the one true God. One of the Emporers used it to mobilize a large portion of his side of the Empire to defeat his enemies. Since then, it has compromised on its pacifist ideals to survive within that political framework then and has done with every other framework since. We could probably thank Judaeism for the legacy of intolerance and the belief in a “one true” God, but it isn’t the Jewish legacy that holds us to the flaws in Christianity… it’s people.

   To delightedtoreply’s comment… sure we can attribute these statistics to Communist and aetheist countries, but to ask us to believe that its because they were “godless” that they committed more deaths is a little far-fetched. We simply got better as a whole at killing people with technology. When you refer to religious wars, you are also probably discounting the “religious” wars in places like China and Japan? China has no real concept of religion in its language (from what I understand), yet millions died in tumultuous history, for reasons that can be called “quasi-religious”. And how many exactly died in Japan’s war in the Pacific? Many Japanese did the things they did because of quasi-religious doctrine.

   Sometime religion is to blame for all the suffering…

   But then, perhaps we should take a closer a look at Tibet. I’m sure they are hiding something from us…

6. Eshin on September 29th, 2005 9:49 pm

   Oh, and is Israel really one of the most hated countries? Most people in Asia and the non-Anglo and Muslim world wouldn’t have a clue about Israel and the issues surrounding it. But, everyone knows the US and would have an opinion about it.

   While I don’t doubt that Israel is deeply religious, much of what drives it is pure survival.

   Actually, come to think of it… Catholicism and Protestism have both committed numerous atrocities in the course of its history. We shouldn’t ignore the numerous wars of conquest in the “name of God” that the Spanish and the rest of the European powers undertook to dominate the world. And the wars at home in Europe are no different… both kings and queens took at as their divine right to wage war on people.

   Again, we just got better at killing people.

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